Is Jesus the Same as God??

In John 10:30 Jesus said, "I and my Father are one." This verse, according to Christians, shows God and Jesus Christ to be same. On the other hand, we read in John 20:17, "Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God." Here Jesus stated that there was a distinction between him and God. In other words that Jesus himself had a God. Also, Matthew 27:46 "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? That is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" Here Jesus Christ cried in loud voice calling for his God.


These are two different and opposite ways Jesus relates himself to God. The first one, he and God are one, and the second, he refers to a higher authority than him which is God. Now assuming that both are correct statements then we have a contradiction. If, for example, Jesus Christ was God himself as in John 10:30 then it would be more appropriate for him to say "...and to myself, and your God." in John 20:17, or "Myself, Myself, why hast thou forsaken me?" in Matthew 27:46. If, on the other hand, one of them is wrong and the other is correct then we have to discard the one we believe to be incorrect! Since God does not make mistakes then we no longer believe the Bible is the word of God (because we believe there is a contradiction of God’s words in the Bible).





A third possibility is that we have to look at how we can interpret the words of Jesus in those verses. As far as John 20:17 and Matthew 27:46 it is very clear Jesus had a God whom he prayed to and Whom had a higher authority than his own. We can back this up with other verses from the Bible that say, "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me." (John 5:30). Also Jesus said, "...for my Father is greater than I" (John 14:28). If Jesus and God were the same then he would not have said what he said in the above verses.





Now, the only verse that can be interpreted is John 10:30. It is the only one that does not render itself clear. The only way John 10:30 could be interpreted such that it does not contradict all the other verses is by saying that Jesus meant he and God had something in common.





To find out what the common grounds were, we have to look at the context in which this verse came:





John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:





John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.





John 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.





John 10:30 I and my Father are one.





As can be seen from John 10:28 and John 10:29 Jesus was telling the Jews that he and God share something in common, and it was: no one can pluck the faithful from either of their hands. This was the common factor between Jesus and God in this case, and not that Jesus was himself God, or that they were exactly the same.





Let us go on to see what Jesus says in John 10:





John 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.





John 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?





John 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.





John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?





John 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;





John 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?





John 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.





John 10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.





John 10:39 Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand,





John 10:40 And went away again beyond Jordan…





In John 10:31 we see that the Jews misunderstood what Jesus had meant by "I and my Father are one." (John 10:30). And in John 10:33 they accused him of blasphemy. Now, had Jesus been God, or had he and God been one in a literal sense then he wouldn’t have hesitated to clarify the matter at that point. Jesus at that point said, "Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?" What he was trying to say was that if the Jews called "I and my Father are one" blasphemy then they should call what was written in their law "Ye are gods" blasphemy too.





The reasoning behind this is "Ye are gods" does not mean that you, the Jews, are Gods, it is rather an expression. It just means that you are godly people. The same applies to "I and my Father are one." It does not mean that Jesus is God or that he and God are the same literally. It’s just an expression. (The same goes for calling himself "the Son of God." This statement should not be taken literally either).





The Holy Quran says, "...Nothing whatsoever (is there) like the like of Him, and He (alone) is All-Hearing and All-Seeing" (Ch 42: Vr 11). Nothing at all is like God, not Moses, not Jesus, not Muhammad, and certainly nothing of His creation.

Is Jesus the Same as God??
The source of the mainstream Christian doctrine of Jesus and God and the Holy Spirit being one (as well as separate and equal) stems, I believe, from the first Council of Nicea (around 325 a.d.). At that time there were two main branches of Christianity vying for authority. Constantine was trying to stabilize his newly formed empire and demanded that these two groups come to one answer and stop fighting because it was creating division in is empire. These result was basically the Nicene Creed which spells out this 3-in-1 idea. The losers were deemed heretics.





Not all self-proclaimed Christians agree with this. Of the ones that do not there are some Pentecostals, Jehovah's Witness and LDS (Mormons). Jehovah's Witness and Mormons tend to be regarded at almost cults and many Christians don't think that they are in fact Christians. I think that Mormons believe Jesus is divine and is the true son of God, but that he is not God. Sorry I don't know more. Try Wikipedia for "Trinity", "Jesus Only", and "Non-Trinitarian" Christian for more info.
Reply:Jesus is God, as stated in John 10:30. On the cross, when He cried out: When the Bible was first written there were no chapter and verse numbers. When someone wanted to talk about a certain Psalm, they would recite the first line or two, and everyone would know what Psalm was being referenced. What Jesus wanted when He cried out was for people to look at the 22nd Psalm. !n 10:31, when the Jews accused Him of blasphemy, Jesus never denied not being God.





Plus, Jesus did things only God could do. Only God could forgive sin, yet Jesus forgave sin. Only God could be worshiped, yet Jesus accepted worship.





Genesis 1:1 says that God Created the Heavens and the Earth. But Colossians says that Jesus Created eveything. Either the Bible is wrong, or Jesus and God is the same.
Reply:Jesus was a man. He was not the son of God, nor was he a prophet.
Reply:Jesus Christ was born a man so that people would have to follow him in faith and on what he had to say. If he would have arrived here as God people would have followed but not with their hearts.


As for the trinity- God, Son, and Holy Spirit they are one in the same. This does not mean that they are a single "man". They have the same essance, they are one as you are one with your children and your childrens love.


Questioning the Bible shows that you will grow in your walk with Christ as long as you research the items that you question. Beware of false Christ religions that will have you interpret this in another way and also beware of anti-God religions that will try and show you that Christ was only a man and not devine.
Reply:God came to earth as Jesus, a man. This was to prove once and for all that man can overcome sin and evil, you don't have to be God to do that. It can be done, and it was done, by Jesus, who overcame temptation by the word of God.
Reply:Long question - short answer - NO!





"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. (NASB ©1995)





End of discussion!
Reply:Who is Jesus?





Without a doubt, you have often heard the claim that Jesus is God, the second person in the "Holy trinity." However, the very Bible which is used as a basis for knowledge about Jesus and as the basis for doctrine within Christianity clearly belies this claim. We urge you to consult your own Bible and verify that the following conclusions are not drawn out of context:





1. God is All Knowing.....but Jesus was not


When speaking of the day of judgment, Jesus clearly gave evidence of a limitation on his knowledge when he said, "but of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in Heaven, neither the son, but the Father." Mark 13:32, and Matt 24:36. But God knows all. His knowledge is without any limitations. That Jesus, of his own admission, did not know when the day of judgment would be, is clear proof that Jesus is not all-knowing, and that Jesus is therefore not God.





2. God is All Powerful.....but Jesus was not


While Jesus performed many miracles, he himself admitted that the power he had was not his own but was derived from God when he said, "Verily, verily I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do..." St. John 5:19. Again he said, "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me." St. John 5:30. But God is not only all-powerful, He is also the source of all power and authority. That Jesus, of his own admission, could do nothing on his own is clear proof that Jesus is not all-powerful, and that therefore Jesus is not God.





3. God does not have a God.....but Jesus did have a God.


God is the ultimate judge and refuge for all, and He does not call upon nor pray to any others. But Jesus acknowledged that there was one whom he worshipped and to whom he prayed when he said, "l ascend unto my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God." St. John 20:17. He is also reported to have cried out while on the cross, "My God, my God why hast thou forsaken me?" Matt 27:46. If Jesus were God, then couldn't this be read, "Myself, myself why hast thou forsaken me?" Would that not be pure nonsense? When Jesus prayed the Lord's prayer (Luke 11:2-4), was he praying to himself? When in the garden of Gethsemane he prayed, "O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: Nevertheless not as I will but as thou wilt." Matt 26:36-39. Was Jesus praying to himself? That Jesus, of his own admission and by his own actions, acknowledged, worshipped, and prayed to another being as God is clear proof that Jesus himself is not God.





4. God is an invisible spirit.....but Jesus was flesh and blood


While thousands saw Jesus and heard his voice, Jesus himself said that this could not be done with God when he said. "No man hath seen God at any time." St. John 1:18. '"Ye have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His shape." St. John 5:37. He also said in St. John 4:24. "God is a spirit and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." That Jesus would say that no one had seen or heard God at any time, while his followers both saw and heard him, is clear proof that Jesus was not God.





5. No one is greater than God and no one can direct Him but Jesus acknowledged someone greater than himself whose will was distinct from his own.


Perhaps the clearest indication we have that Jesus and God are not equal, and therefore not one and the same, come again from the mouth of Jesus himself who said in St. John 14:28, "My Father is greater than I." When someone referred to him as good master in Matt 19:17, Jesus responded, "Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God..." Furthermore, Jesus drew clear distinctions between himself and God when he said, "I proceeded forth and came from God, neither came I of myself but He sent me." St. John 8:42. Jesus gave clear evidence of his subordination to God, rather than his equality with God,when he said in Luke 22:42, "not my will but thine be done" and in St. John 5:30, "I seek not mine own will but the will of the Father which hath sent me." That Jesus would admit that he did not come into the world on his own initiative but was directed to do so, that he would acknowledge another being as greater than himself, and that he would negate his own will in deference to affirming the will of another, give clear proof that Jesus is not the Supreme One and therefore Jesus is not God.





Conclusion


The Church recognizes the Bible as the primary source of knowledge about God and Jesus. But since the Bible makes it clear that Jesus is not the Supreme Being and the Supreme Being is not Jesus, upon what basis have you come to believe otherwise?


Moreover, the belief that the Supreme Being is a Trinity is false and completely inconsistent with the words of Jesus as presented in the Bible. God is one, not three. He is a perfect unity.


If you are interested in the truth about God and your relationship to Him, we invite you to investigate the religion of Islam.





What is the word of God about Jesus:


A. Regarding Sonship of Jesus:


That is Jesus, son of Mary, in word of truth, concerning which they are doubting. It is not for God to take a son unto Him. Glory be to Him! When He decrees a thing he but says to it "Be", and it is. (Qur'an 19:34,35).





And they say, 'The All-merciful has taken unto Himself a son.' You have indeed advanced something hideous. The heavens are well nigh rent of it and the earth split asunder, and the mountains well nigh fall down crashing for that they have attributed to the All-Merciful a son; and it behoves not the All-Merciful to take a son. None is there in the heavens and earth but comes to the All-Merciful as a servant (Qur'an 19:88-93).





Truly the likeness of Jesus, in God's sight, is as Adam's likeness; He created him of dust, then said He unto him, "Be", and he was. (Qur'an 3:59).





People of the Book, go not beyond the bounds in your religion, and say not as to God but the Truth. The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only the Messenger of God, and His Word that He committed to Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in God and His Messengers. and say not, 'Three', Refrain, better is it for you. God is only One God. Glory be on Him - that He should have a son! To Him belongs that which is in the heavens and on the earth, God suffices for a guardian. (Qur'an 4:171)





B. Regarding Jesus being God:


And when God said. 'O Jesus son of Mary,did you say unto men, "Take me and my mother as gods, apart from God?" He Said, 'To You be Glory! It is not mine to say what I have no right to. If I indeed said it, You knew it, knowing what is within my soul, and I do not know what is within Your soul; You know the things unseen. I only said to them what You did command me: "Serve God, my Lord and your Lord." And I was a witness over them, while I remained among them; but when You did take me to Yourself the Watcher over them; You are the witness of everything. (Quran 5:116,117)





C. Regarding Crucifiction of Jesus:


And for their unbelief, and their uttering against Mary a mighty calumny, and for their saying, 'We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, the Messenger of God'...yet they did not slay him, neither crucified him, only a likeness of that was shown to them. Those who are at variance concerning him surely are in doubt regarding him, they have no knowledge of him, except the following of surmise; and they did not slay him of certainty... no indeed, God raised him up to Him; God is Almighty, All-Wise. There is not one of the people of the Book but will assuredly believe in him before his death, and on the Resurrection Day he will be a witness against them. (Qur'an 4:156-159)





YOU MAY REFER TO THIS LINK TO KNOW ABOUT THE RELIGION OF ISLAM…….


(A BRIEF ILLUSTRATED GUIDE TO UNDERSTANDING ISLAM)





http://www.islam-guide.com/islam-guide.p...





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The Bible altering…


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Muslims also believe that God revealed a holy book to Jesus called the Injeel, some parts of which may be still available in the teachings of God to Jesus in the New Testament. But this does not mean that Muslims believe in the Bible we have today because it is not the original scriptures that were revealed by God. They underwent alterations, additions, and omissions. This was also said by the Committee charged with revising The Holy Bible (Revised Standard Version). This Committee consisted of thirty-two scholars who served as members of the Committee. They secured the review and counsel of an Advisory Board of fifty representatives of the co-operating denominations. The Committee said in the Preface to


The Holy Bible (Revised Standard Version), p. iv: “Sometimes it is evident that the text has suffered in transmission, but none of the versions provides a satisfactory restoration. Here we can only follow the best judgment of competent scholars as to the most probable reconstruction of the original text.” The Committee also said in the Preface, p. vii: “Notes are added which indicate significant variations, additions, or omissions in the ancient authorities (Mt 9.34; Mk 3.16; 7.4; Lk 24.32, 51, etc.).”


For more information on the altering of the Bible, please visit www.islam-guide.com/bible





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The Holy Quran


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God, the Most Compassionate, didn't leave man to go astray without an unadulterated reference. Indeed, He revealed the Qur’an and promised to preserve it as the final revelation for humankind for all times. It is the word of God which He revealed to Prophet Muhammad (mercy and peace of God be upon him) through the Angel Gabriel. It was revealed in parts over a period of 23 years. The Quran deals with the basis of creeds, morality, history of humanity, worship, knowledge, wisdom, God-man relationship, and human relationship in all aspects. Comprehensive teaching on which, can be built sound systems of social justice, economics, politics, legislation, jurisprudence, law and international relations, are important contents of the Quran. The Prophet Muhammad (mercy and peace of God be upon him) dictated the revelation to his companions who wrote it down during his lifetime on palm leaves, parchments, bones, flat stones, etc. In addition, the Qur'an was committed to heart by many of Prophet Muhammad's companions. One year after the death of Prophet Muhammad (mercy and peace of God be upon him), the first Caliph (Ruler), Abu-Bakr, instructed the Prophet’s companions to collect the whole Qur’an in one volume. The third Caliph, Uthman, prepared several copies from the original text and sent them to the major centers of Islamic Civilization. From that time onwards, more than 1400 years ago, the same Qur’anic text has been in use with the exact wording, order and language (Arabic). Not a single word from its 114 chapters has been changed since it was revealed. Indeed, God promised in the Qur’an to preserve it forever. He said: “Verily, I have sent down the Qur’an, and indeed, I will guard it from corruption.” (15:9). An essential point to understand about the Qur’an is that it is a miracle both in its revelation and content.


I advise you to see the following links which show the evidence that the Holy Qur’an is a miracle.





http://www.jalyat.net/





www.miraclesofthequran.com





At the time of the revelation and since, there have been those who have denied the divine and miraculous nature of the Qur’an saying that Muhammad (mercy and peace of God be upon him) was either taught by others or that he wrote it by himself! In order to counteract this claim, God lays down a challenge to the whole of humankind saying: “ If you are in doubt concerning what I have revealed to My slave (Muhammad), then produce one chapter like it and you may call on your helpers beside Allah, if you are truthful.” (2:23) .These are from the prophecies which the Qur’an foretold as no one from the time of the Prophet (mercy and peace of God be upon him) until this day has been able to produce the like of one chapter or even a verse of the Qur’an.





Note that the Qur’an was revealed to Muhammad (peace be upon him) in Arabic only. So, any Qur’anic translation, either in English or any other language, is neither a Qur’an, nor a version of the Qur’an, but rather it is only a translation of the meaning of the Qur’an. The Qur’an exists only in the Arabic in which it was revealed.








This link for the Holy Quran translated in English language:





http://www.harunyahya.com/Quran_translat...








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Did you listen to The Holy Qur'an before?


Would you mind listing to it now?


Please make it for just one time


and read the translation……





http://quran.islamway.com/rashed/020.ram (listen)


http://quran.islamway.com/rashed/020.rm (doanload)


http://www.wam.umd.edu/~stwright/rel/isl... (Translation)





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Real Happiness and Inner Peace


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Real happiness and peace can be ONLY found in submitting to the commands of the Creator and the Sustainer of this world. God has said in the Qur’an: (Truly, in remembering God do hearts find rest.)


(Qur’an, 13:28)





On the other hand, the one who turns away from the Qur’an will have a life of hardship in this world. God has said:


(But whoever turns away from the Qur’an, he will have a hard life, and We will raise him up blind on the Day of Judgment.) (Qur’an, 20:124)


This may explain why some people commit suicide while they enjoy the material comfort money can buy. For example, look at Cat Stevens (now Yusuf Islam), formerly a famous pop singer who used to earn sometimes more than $150,000 a night. After he converted to Islam, he found true happiness and peace, which he had not found in material success.


To read the stories of people who have converted to Islam, please visit





http://www.islam-guide.com/stories





At this web page, you can read the thoughts and feelings of these people, who are from different countries and have different backgrounds and levels of education.








Now, you may refer to the following links to get to know more about Islam:





http://www.islam-guide.com/islam-guide.p...


http://www.muslimconverts.com








=*For any help feel free to e-mail me*=


smiling4ever222@hotmail.com
Reply:no but at least he existed ...god never has ! Ever think on your own rather than someone else telling you what to think ?
Reply:"I and my Father are one." (John 10:30). They are in utter agreement as this pure polished mirror can do no other than be in accord with the will of God. Though Jesus is not God he reflects God perfectly. As a mirror reflects the sun Jesus reflects the Sun of Truth perfectly. The sun doesn't get in the mirror, the mirror doesn't become the sun but instead the pure, polished surface is a perfect reflection. Jesus has none of the impediments to mirroring the Creator that the rest of us do. He has been specially chosen for this Mission. Jesus is the Messenger of God to humanity for one particular dispensation. The title of his Revelation is "The Son of God", just as Muhammads Revelations title is the "Counselor" and Moses is the "Interlocutor". Muhammad, your explanation is nearly the best I have seen on this subject.
Reply:Nothing like a good Bible teaching from an Islam..........not.
Reply:No.





The kingdom of God at the present time consists of 2 individuals, The Most High God (the Father), The Logos (Christ, the Messiah, the Son). They are 2 separate individuals. Christ said he and the Father are one. That does not mean they are the same individual just as I and my wife are one and are not the same individual. They function as one, having one purpose, one destiny. They are obviously 2 separate beings.
Reply:Jesus is God incarnate, or God made man, Immanuel God with us.
Reply:Collosian 1:15 He is the image of the invisible GOD and the first of all creation. Jehovah is indefinite........no beginning.....
Reply:way too long....Refer us to the books instead of retyping them...good grief....two parts of the same SUPreme Being!
Reply:ok this one is kinda hard to understand. God,Jesus,and the Holy Spirit are apart of the same .. Jesus is the Son of God which is apart of God because it's his Son. Holy Spirit is God so it's like cut into 3 pieces. there's God then Jesus then the Holy Spirit.


so ... no there not the same. Jesus is apart of God which I understand. and the Holy Spirit which lives in us all that believe in God, is God I believe.. that's a hard question
Reply:You only have to choose which book tells the truth. If it is the Bible you choose to believe then Jesus is God. Why not, he came to bring you back to God who is your heavenly Father.
Reply:The bible has been through so many hands,politicians an powers that were. I believ it has been modified, misinterpeted and misunderstood. it was gods communication to a generation at a particular time with a particular ourpose. As certain poison are the correct medicine when administered properly. Jesus was taught by a siddha yoga guru, christianity, buddhism, and islam have their roots in india, See www.stephen-knapp.com/articles_to_read. This is an unbiased, factual site giving the histories of these religions. Jesus knew he was one with God, he maintained separation until his ascention. "God dwells within you as you".You have unity with God in unconditional love within your heart. as the colors of the rainbow are contained within sunlight, so to are we all contained within the light of Gods unconditional love. It is not enough to see the light, one must become the light. You can attain this while in the body. Jesus expressed the path physically, he did not fully merge until his ascention.He did this so we could see the process,
Reply:Good examples there. as you can see in the verses when the two are refered to as "one", it is not capitalized. whenever God is refered to in the bible it is capitalized. the bible also states that when a man and woman are joined in marriage the two become "one", not meaning they actually become one person but one in purpose. i hope this helps you a little bit.
Reply:'I and my father are one' meaning Jesus has the same level of consciousness as God, Son of God, Part of God, all Ok
Reply:The Trinity = 3 in 1 Yes, Jesus is God!





God the Father


God the Son


God the Holy Spirit





This is one of those mysteries in the Bible that is hard to understand, but, I believe it. God doesn't expect us to understand everything about Him and all of his ways.





God appeared to us in the form of a baby, that baby was Jesus. Jesus was human while on this earth. Jesus came to help a troubled land change their way of life. He taught about love, forgiveness, salvation.

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